ATLANTA (GA)
Baptist News Global [Jacksonville FL]
July 14, 2024
By Mark Wingfield
Johnny Hunt finally got to tell his side the story about what happened at a beachside condo in 2010, when he is accused of sexually abusing a pastor’s wife the age of his own daughters.
In a court deposition taken April 18, the former Georgia pastor and denominational leader says the narrative of what happened that day was misrepresented by Guidepost Solutions in its report to the Southern Baptist Convention Executive Committee in 2022.
The 368-page deposition was made public last week. It covers a wide range of topics, from Hunt’s income stream, to his leadership of men’s conferences, to his tenure as president of the SBC, to his definition of adultery.
Defining adultery
Hunt, the former longtime pastor of Woodstock Baptist Church north of Atlanta, says he sees a difference between “adultery” and being “unfaithful” to one’s wife. It is only adultery, he says, if there is sexual intercourse involved.
That led to the following exchange between Hunt and the attorney for Guidepost Solutions who was conducting the deposition:
Q. “How would you define in your own words abuse?”
A. “When I think of abuse, I speak — I think of someone actually being physically hurt or — so abusive, which I guess it could have been verbal too. But that would be all I would have ever probably considered.”
Q. “And has your own opinion of what sexual abuse is or is not changed since 2010?”
A. “Yes. It’s changed since I now am able to see the legal definition of it. Absolutely.”
Q. “And what’s your understanding of the legal definition?”
A. “To use sexual abuse would be in the context of intercourse, at least, and I know in the state of Florida, and I think in Georgia and Tennessee. So I see it in that context, but definitely not consensual.”
Q. “So I want to be clear, you think in order for there to be sexual abuse, there has to be intercourse? Under a legal definition?”
A. “That would be part of it.”
Later, the attorney taking the deposition asks again about defining adultery.
Q. “How do you define adultery?”
A. “Adultery is a man that is married and he has sexual intercourse with someone other than his wife.
“So Bill Clinton did not commit adultery?”
Q. “So Bill Clinton did not commit adultery?”
A. “I don’t know his story.”
Q. “If it did not result in sexual intercourse, which we will define as a man’s penis being inserted into a women’s vagina … .”
At this point, Hunt’s attorney interrupts to challenge the questioning. A few minutes later, the conversation resumes.
Q. “What do you consider being unfaithful to one’s spouse?”
A. “To be unfaithful, to me, in my heart, would have been to have gone to another lady’s room. But that is not adultery.”
Q. “OK. When do you cross the line from being unfaithful to committing adultery?”
A. “When you have sex with her.”
Q. “And by ‘sex,’ you mean intercourse?”
A. “Intercourse. Exactly.”
Q. “So you could be unfaithful by going to a woman — not your wife’s — room and kiss her and that is not adultery?”
A. “That’s not adultery.”
The allegations
That definition appears to be important to the defense attorney because of the allegations in the Guidepost report that Hunt, shortly after his tenure as SBC president ended, went to the beach condo of a woman who was not his wife and fondled her, kissed her breasts and pulled down her underwear.
Hunt claims in his lawsuit against Guideposts and the SBC that this account defamed him and deprived him of income as a speaker and preacher. Guideposts has stood by its report, as has the SBC Executive Committee.
Even though at age 71, he is well beyond a traditional retirement age, Hunt says in the deposition he has no plans to retire.
Hunt lost his job as executive vice president of the SBC North American Mission Board when the report came out. Even though at age 71, he is well beyond a traditional retirement age, Hunt says in the deposition he has no plans to retire.
Guidepost accused of ‘false narrative’
He calls the Guidepost report a “false narrative” and “false allegations” about what happened that day.
The attorney taking the deposition says at one point: “Well, you keep saying ‘false allegations,’ but you did, in fact, kiss another man’s wife, correct?”
A. “I have never kissed her lips in my life. I have never touched her lips, so help me God.”
Q. “Now I’m confused.”
A. “OK, good.”
Q. “Because your complaint very clearly says that the encounter with Jane Doe involved kissing and awkwardly fondling.”
“My lips have never touched her lips.”
A. “Because she said I kissed her forehead at a time earlier. She just didn’t get the context, with her husband there, when they were both crying as I was offering counsel because things had fallen apart at their church. She also said on one occasion, which I do not remember, that I kissed her hand. And that was a real grooming moment, according to her testimony. But, no, my lips have never touched her lips.”
Q. “I want to be crystal clear that in her condo on July 10, 2010, you did not kiss Jane Doe?
A. “My hand raised to God, my lips have never touched (her) lips, ever.”
Q. “And you did not awkwardly fondle her?”
A. “I did awkwardly fondle her because she was coming on to me. I have never been questioned before is the reason I’m so excited about being here today. I have never been — had an opportunity. And I will speak to all of the Guidepost report and how that came about. I have never been questioned.”
‘She seduced me’
Hunt’s interrogator then returns to the story of what happened that summer day 14 years ago.
Hunt says he received a text from the woman, whom he says he barely knew, and who he now believes was “stalking” him.
“She said, ‘Come to the balcony.’ She had rented a room next to me, unknowing to me. She had just been there two weeks prior without her children and with her husband. Now she’s without her husband or her children. She encourages me to come to her side of the balcony. She says she wants me to come there so I won’t be in the sun. She’s exposed to the exact same sun mine is.”
Hunt says he continued to refuse her invitation but she “continued to seduce.”
“With what I would call temporary forgetfulness of God on my behalf — I take full responsibility — I went over and went to her balcony.”
“And so with what I would call temporary forgetfulness of God on my behalf — I take full responsibility — I went over and went to her balcony. She said she wanted to talk to me. She places her feet up on my knees. I said: ‘What do you want? Me to rub your legs?’ She said: ‘It would be nice.’ And then she said: ‘I knew if I could get you to come over here, hopefully, you would ask to touch me because you are a perfect gentleman.”
This is a significantly different version of events than are given in the Guidepost report, where Hunt is portrayed as the aggressor.
According to Hunt’s account, he told the woman he wasn’t comfortable on the porch so they went inside. Then he announced he “really should leave.” She urged him to stay and “she talked me into sitting on the end of the couch. She was sitting on the opposite end. But then she turned around and spread her legs toward me. And then said, ‘Please come closer.’
“That’s where she would say I pinned her in. At her request, I came and sat beside her. And then she lowered her top. She made herself available … .”
They talked about an earlier conversation about why she could not go running with him the day before because she didn’t have a sports bra. “And so when she did that is when I fondled her. And then I pulled her pants down with her help.
“But as I did, I came under deep conviction, stood up and said, ‘I love my wife, and I love your family. And I shouldn’t be here. And I’m sorry. And I left. As I was leaving, she said, ‘Please don’t be this way. It’s only the first day.”
“It was not an affair; it was an encounter.”
In summary, Hunt says, “It was not an affair; it was an encounter — and never after. And she continued to reach out through her husband over the years.”
The attorney asks, “It was being unfaithful to your wife?”
Hunt responds: “Yes, ma’am. But not adultery. I thank God I stopped when I did and left. And you can deem that fornication. You are severely wrong to call it adultery.”
In later questioning for the deposition, an attorney says, “So just to be clear, the sexual encounter was full breast exposure with kissing and fondling her breasts while they were exposed?
Hunt replies: “Correct. Correct.”
And then this: “Think she’s about your daughter’s age?”
To which Hunt replies: “Uh-huh, uh-huh.”
What Guidepost said
The original Guidepost report says of Hunt’s beach encounter: “During our investigation, an SBC pastor and his wife came forward to report that SBC President Johnny Hunt (2008-2010) had sexually assaulted the wife on July 25, 2010. We include this sexual assault allegation in the report because our investigators found the pastor and his wife to be credible; their report was corroborated in part by a counseling minister and three other credible witnesses; and our investigators did not find Dr. Hunt’s statements related to the sexual assault allegation to be credible.”
The attorney for Guidepost, during the deposition, asks Hunt why he did not more vigorously oppose the content of the Guidepost report, since he knew the gist of what it would say.
They would not listen to him, he said, because “their minds were made up.” He later added: “After the way they ambushed me, who wanted to talk to them?
Fearing the worst of the report, Hunt went to NAMB President Kevin Ezell to offer his resignation, which was accepted.
Hunt also explains in the deposition that he got hired at NAMB in 2019 because of his integrity and name appeal.
“They wanted my name. They wanted Johnny Hunt there because they were struggling a lot.”
“I will just be real clear,” he says. “They wanted my name. They wanted Johnny Hunt there because they were struggling a lot. They needed a name of integrity and a name of leadership to help them. And so because I couldn’t go full time until 2020, but they just said if we could just have your name and you just do a number of conferences, we want you now. And that was our understanding.”
At another point, the lawyer asks: “And when you left your employment at NAMB, they didn’t allow you to keep your NAMB computer?” Hunt responds: “I think they gave me the computer, but I don’t use a computer. I used it 99% of the time for Zoom calls during 2020. So I gave it to my granddaughter.”
Hunt family businesses
The deposition also digs deep into the array of Hunt family businesses outlined in a Baptist News Global report in 2023. Repeatedly, Hunt denies knowing much about the network of businesses and claims reports of him running a family empire are exaggerated.
The attorney asks: Do you employ any of (your children) through your various business entities?” Hunt responds, “No, ma’am. No.”
BNG’s analysis portrays a different situation, with a network of companies where various family members serve as board members and employees, with Johnny Hunt being the central figure.
The attorney asks: Do you employ any of (your children) through your various business entities?” Hunt responds, “No, ma’am. No.”
“So I see the line of reason that we are taking here, that Baptist news ran, that I — the Hunt empire. Have absolutely nothing to do with them. I have children, family that’s been greatly blessed and are hard workers. And I’m so grateful God has been good to us, and we can be good. We have been blessed to be a blessing. So I see the line of reasoning of — that we have just really been heavily involved in helping people, and you can’t help people without it normally helping you.”
The deposition included review of multiple years of Hunt’s federal tax returns and questions about his income sources. All that financial information is redacted from the public report.
One basis for Hunt’s defamation suit is that the Guidepost report caused him to lose income and not be invited to speak at conferences and churches. Because of the “false allegations,” he says, “I was removed from basically everything except for my family and speaking and then a few friends that want me to come on Sunday.”
The attorney then lists a series of six conferences and asks Hunt if he still speaks at those, to which he replies yes.
“How many days would you estimate in 2023 you were booked or on the road for speaking engagements,” the lawyer asks.
“Probably 24 Sundays of the year and then the three conferences,” Hunt says, not accounting for two of the conferences he just moments before said he had done in 2023.
And this year alone, he’s already done five men’s conferences, he said.
Later, the interrogator asks Hunt how he came up with the content of men’s conferences. His answer: “Being a man.”
Related articles:
‘Pastor Johnny’ is the head of a family empire that feeds off the SBC
Guidepost report documents pattern of ignoring, denying and deflecting on sexual abuse claims in SBC
‘Pastor Johnny’ sues the SBC and Guidepost
Former SBC President Johnny Hunt admits improper conduct but denies abuse claims
Panel of four male pastors clears Johnny Hunt to return to ministry
Two churches ‘under inquiry’ by SBC Credentials Committee for platforming Johnny Hunt
Here’s Johnny! Embattled SBC pastor back in the pulpit and will headline a men’s conference