(AUSTRALIA)
The Roys Report [Chicago IL]
June 19, 2024
By Ann Marie Shambaugh
The founding pastor of a nondenominational church near Melbourne, Australia, is refusing to resign after a seven-month investigation by a group of interim elders found him to be disqualified from ministry on a dozen counts. In addition, more than 30 people with ties to the congregation have alleged spiritual and physical abuse and manipulation, the interim elders say.
The pastor—Larry Sebastian of Casey City Church—is also accused of covering up the alleged rape of a 12-year-old girl in 2013, berating staff members, and harassing a former employee by repeatedly showing up at her home after she resigned.
Sebastian denies the allegations.
In November 2023, the interim elders presented their findings and recommendations to the congregation. In a separate meeting, they also presented the findings to a group of approximately 60 whistleblowers, victims, and allies who no longer feel welcome at the church.
In a video of the whistleblower meeting that The Roys Report (TRR) was permitted to view, interim elder Allan Meyer stated, “(Sebastian) is a man who sincerely wants to serve God and has a genuine vision and ministry and desire in his heart but who all too often is involved in hypocrisy, appearance management, uses fear as a controlling mechanism, is inconsistent to the point of distress to those who have to work alongside him, is deaf to what he does not want to hear, and is willing to both humiliate and intimidate.”
The interim elders recommended Sebastian resign, but they did not have the power to remove him. According to the church constitution, that can happen only if 75% of members vote in favor.
A vote has not been called because a straw poll showed that the measure would not pass, according to former elder and church employee Karen Alsop. Alsop said many of Sebastian’s alleged victims have already left the church or are too traumatized to return for a vote.
In response to questions emailed by TRR, Sebastian stated the interim elders called for his resignation without “providing adequate reasons” or “offering any supporting evidence” for their decision. He stated that the allegations have come from a “very small number of individuals within the church community” and that church members “overwhelmingly rejected” the recommendation that he resign.
Sebastian denied covering up the alleged rape of a child in 2013, saying he was not made aware of the rape until 10 years later. He also refuted acting abusively toward church employees.
“It saddens me that anyone would think that I have acted in such a way toward church staff. I have always sought to act in a caring and supportive way toward my staff,” he said. “However, where staff have highlighted deficiencies in my approach, I have always welcomed such feedback, apologised where necessary and encouraged them to continue to bring such issues forward to me, so we can work together as a healthy team and develop a culture that honours each person through honest sharing.”
The interim elders’ investigation led to several incidents being reported to local police and the Australian Commission for Children and Young People, including multiple allegations of children being shaken or pushed by Sebastian, stalking, and physical intimidation. Those agencies are continuing to review the incidents, according to Alsop.
Investigating a rape claim
Among the most concerning allegations Sebastian is facing is that he failed to report to authorities the alleged rape of a 12-year-old girl by a juvenile male at a youth conference in 2013.
Now in her early 20s, the victim, who asked to be identified by her initials “RG,” told TRR that she reported the rape to Sebastian two weeks after it occurred. (TRR has a policy of not identifying sex abuse victims unless they request it.) She added that she had known and trusted Sebastian since she was a young child.
“I disclosed what had happened, and he said, ‘OK, don’t tell your mom. She’s got enough to deal with at the moment. We’ll handle it. I will sort it out.’ Then we went our separate ways,” RG said. “(But) nothing happened. It was never spoken of again. There was no counseling provided.”
RG said she heeded Sebastian’s advice and did not tell her mother – or anyone else – about the rape for many years.
In an emailed response to questions from TRR, Sebastian stated that he was not told about the rape and had no knowledge of the allegation until last year.
“At no point did the senior pastors of the church ask the alleged victim to keep the alleged rape secret,” he stated. “The senior pastors did not know about this alleged rape. The senior pastors only became aware in 2023 because of such accusations being made. The senior pastors have never been made aware directly from the alleged victim.”
According to Sebastian, the interim elders investigated the 2013 rape allegations during its review and concluded that it “could not be substantiated.” He said because the incident is being investigated by Australian authorities, “it is not appropriate that the senior pastors or the church make any contact with the alleged victim or perpetrator.”
Kevin Manning, an elder among those leading efforts to investigate Sebastian, said that determining the veracity of the rape allegation was beyond the scope of the interim elders’ investigation. But Manning said after the investigation concluded, other witnesses came forward to help substantiate the claim.
RG said that she decided to speak about the matter a decade after it occurred because she realized that Sebastian was required to report the alleged rape to authorities. Religious leaders are mandated reporters, according to Australian law.
“I trusted this man with my whole being, and he betrayed that,” RG said. “I want others (in a similar situation) to know that they’re not alone and there is light on the other side of this. I need the children and the young people in my family to know that they can come to me if they need that support, and I’m not going to be the one who says, ‘Don’t tell your mom.’ They have a safe person to come to.”
‘Sold out to Larry’s vision’
Alsop, who said she served as Sebastian’s “right-hand person” for years, has been working to identify and connect victims of Sebastian’s alleged abuse as she works through her own trauma she said was caused by the pastor and her role in enabling some of his actions.
She and her husband joined the church in 2005, two years after its founding. The couple became its first elders in 2009. Alsop said she witnessed Sebastian’s abusive behavior soon after joining the church, but she didn’t initially identify it as such.
“The meetings (with Sebastian and his wife, Christa) were very high pressure, and a lot of manipulating and bullying went on through all of that time,” Karen Alsop said. “But we were very sold out to Larry’s vision.”
Part of that vision included purchasing a $2.8 million building for the church, which Alsop described as a “crazy idea” for a fledgling congregation with limited funds.
“It would be a very big risk for a small church like us to take on such a big project,” Alsop said. “But Larry would get prophecies from people that would confirm to him that we’re supposed to do it. And he’d always say, ‘What right do we have to disobey God?’”
Sebastian acquired some of the funds to purchase the building through investors, Alsop said, and took out a $1.8 million loan from a bank, which he convinced the Alsops to personally back.
“We were forced under duress to sign on as guarantors, which would put our house and everything at risk,” Alsop said. “We didn’t want to, but again, it was that we were paying the price (of leading in ministry).”
Sebastian said all of the elders, as responsible persons for the church, were required by the bank to be signatories/guarantors to the loan and that no one was forced into the arrangement. He said guarantors were released after two years and that the loan was fully discharged after five years.
Alsop confirmed her family did not lose any personal finances as a result of being guarantors.
Though troubled by several interactions with Sebastian, for years the Alsops didn’t feel comfortable sharing their concerns with others. Years later, when reading books and articles about narcissistic pastors, Alsop said she realized they described many of Sebastian’s traits and actions.
Knowing what she was likely dealing with, Alsop began sharing her story with other elders and church members. She said she quickly realized she wasn’t the only one who had been hurt by Sebastian.
‘I just can’t do it anymore’
For Jenni Manning, Kevin Manning’s wife, hearing of the Alsop’s encounters with Sebastian provided a sense of relief.
She began working for the church’s children’s ministry in 2014. From the start, she said Sebastian was controlling, demanding of her time, and critical of other employees.
“He was always coming into our office, just barging in and telling us about a horrible email he received and saying negative things about staff,” Manning said.
Soon, she realized that Sebastian’s characterization of those around him didn’t match with what Manning experienced from them. She believed he was trying to pit employees against each other and cause division.
Jenni Manning said she eventually became so stressed working for Sebastian that she requested two weeks of leave to address her deteriorating health. She quickly decided she could not return to work for Sebastian.
“I’d started having problems where chunks of my hair was falling out,” she said. “I didn’t realize at the time that it was the stress. I was being berated by Larry and undermined with everything.”
Another victim, who asked not to be named because she fears retribution aimed at her family, said she experienced frequent abusive behavior from Sebastian during her time on staff in 2006 but that it escalated after she quit.
The woman, a single mother with two young girls at the time, said Sebastian was constantly angry at her and other staff members and that he would frequently yell at them.
“The minute you disappointed him you knew he would go for your aorta,” the woman said. “There was no gentleness about him.”
Less than a year after accepting the job, the woman said she began to become ill from the stress.
“I was shaking all the time in the morning. I was totally burnt out,” the woman said. “I took a week off initially, and during that time I (decided) I’m never going back. I just can’t do it anymore.”
After her abrupt departure, the woman said Sebastian – who lived near her – would frequently show up unannounced at her home.
“I started getting knocks at the door,” she said. “(Sebastian said), ‘I know you’re there!’ Screaming at the top of his lungs. It was always at night. It was always dark.”
The woman said she and her daughters would hide until he left, and that his sudden appearances occurred over several weeks. She said she did not report the harassment to the police because she was afraid it would anger Sebastian even further.
“I was scared of him and of poking the bear, because I knew that the bear goes crazy,” the woman said. “So, I just tried not to poke him.”
Sebastian stated he has no recollection of showing up unannounced at a former employee’s home and said that the account is “not true.”
He stated that he has always tried to “foster a supportive and caring team culture” in the workplace. He said staff members are encouraged to address issues directly with others involved to make peace, following guidance from Matthew 18.
“In this regard, we promote open and robust communication to build a stronger team, enabling members to discuss challenges without reservation,” he stated. “In this regard we work diligently to prevent division within the church staff.”
Ongoing investigation
According to an April article in Australian newspaper The Daily Telegraph, Kevin Manning and fellow elder Peter Greene are continuing to seek information from potential victims. They also are working with accounting firm BDO for a forensic accounting investigation of church finances.
Manning and Greene have also reported their financial concerns to the Australian Charities and Not-For-Profit Commission, which regulates charities in Australia.
The two men have alleged that Sebastian has not been transparent with finances or provided documentation about how the church has used its funds.
Manning and Greene declined to comment on the record regarding this aspect of the story, citing ongoing legal discussions with Casey City Church.
Ann Marie Shambaugh has reported as a print journalist in multiple states, including currently in Carmel, Indiana.