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	A Globe Conversation with Archbishop O'Malley Interview by Michael Paulson Boston Globe March 19, 2006 http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/ 2006/03/19/omalley_transcript/ Archbishop Sean P. O'Malley of Boston sat down on Wednesday afternoon for an interview with Boston Globe religion reporter Michael Paulson about the state of the archdiocese and the implications of O'Malley's elevation to cardinal. O'Malley, who has been archbishop of Boston since July 2003, is to become a cardinal on Friday, at a consistory in Rome. Below is a transcript of the interview, which took place at the chancery in Brighton. Q: Thank you for taking the time to talk. Tell me, first of all, what kind of changes you anticipate for yourself personally and for the archdiocese as a result of your becoming a cardinal. A: Well, it's new, so it's hard for me to forecast. I suppose that the Holy Father will appoint me to some commissions that will necessitate attending meetings occasionally. The Holy Father has talked about using the College of Cardinals as a sort of senate, and he has scheduled a meeting with us next week where we'll spend the whole day just bringing up issues with him. I'm not sure whether that's going to be something that he does on a periodic basis or whether he's just taking advantage of the presence of the cardinals in Rome. I mean, his pontificate is a little too new to know exactly how he will use the cardinals. I'm hoping that the Holy See will recognize the fact that Boston is a large archdiocese with many challenges and will not give me so many assignments that it will distract from my principal mission, which is to be the archbishop of Boston. Q: Do you have any input into which particular congregations you get assigned to? A: I don't know. Maybe after next week, I may be able to answer some of these questions better. Obviously, I know Latin America very well. The Holy See has sent me there on many missions over the last few years. The last time, they sent me to Cuba to visit the seminaries. There is a commission on Latin America, maybe I'd be put on that, but it's hard to forecast. Actually, the Holy Father is restructuring a lot of the curia, and may be putting some of these commissions together and reducing the number of offices. So they might wait until that is done before they begin to assign committees to the cardinals. Q: And how do you expect it will change the way you interact with other church officials or just laypeople and priests here in Boston? A: In Boston, I don't think it will have a great impact. Ever since I came here, people have been saying 'Your Eminence,' they're so used to having a cardinal-archbishop. But, certainly, being a cardinal does involve you in the more international life of the church. And so, I will probably have more contact with bishops and cardinals from other parts of the world, and they will probably visit Boston now because there's a cardinal here. But as I say, at this point, it's all so new to me, and it's difficult for me to assess exactly what those changes will be. Within our own bishops' conference, the structure doesn't allow for the cardinals to have any special role, but the American cardinals do get together before meetings on occasions. Q: You mentioned the title, 'Your Eminence,' and I know you're a Capuchin friar. You've placed this big emphasis on humility and working with the poor, and at the same time, you'll now have these very elaborate vestments and this lofty title and certain privileges. And I wonder how you reconcile being on the one hand a prince of the church, and on the other hand a Franciscan. A: Well, it's an anomaly that you accept because you want to be available for the mission of the church. We have the vow of obedience, and I took as my motto 'Do Whatever He Tells You -- Quodcumque Dixerit Facite,' which are the last words of the blessed mother in the Bible. But I don't like the hoopla and will try to avoid as much of it as I can without --I don't want to not recognize the dignity of this honor and the office and what it means for Catholics, and so, when in proper times I have to wear certain liturgical vestments, I will certainly do that. I've always tried to observe what the church expects of us, but my preference is to try and maintain a simple lifestyle. Obviously, I am no longer living in a Capuchin monastery, but I try to live the spirit of our rule and constitutions the best that I can. The church does expect religious bishops to do that. We still don't have any personal property as religious bishops. And...it is an anomaly. We have many bishops in the order, but most of them are in the missions. I have a classmate in Papua New Guinea and another who is bishop in Bluefields, Nicaragua. And, well, I started off in the West Indies, so that's sort of the usual. If they're going to make us a bishop, it's usually in mission countries. Q: I understand that the red hat that you'll get has traditionally symbolized a willingness to shed blood for the church, and I wonder, what does that mean in a contemporary context? A: The red vestments carry that significance, and one that I think is very powerful for Catholics, for believers. It certainly is for me. I like to think that I'm prepared to suffer for my vocation, for the church, and I hope that God will give me the grace to be faithful to that. It's unlikely that I will experience a bloody persecution, but there's always more subtle forms of persecution that people have to endure for their beliefs and to be able to witness to the Gospel. One of my classmates, it's the one that's bishop in New Guinea, a couple months ago was stripped and beaten by robbers there, in the highlands, and my other classmate that's in Bluefields, they threw a hand grenade into his Jeep and blew off part of his arm and killed the nun that was with him. So, I don't think I'll have to endure those kinds of things in Boston. But our vocation means we should be available for service to the church, even in the most adverse circumstances. Q: You mentioned that persecution comes in other forms. Do you see the Church as persecuted, either locally or nationally? A: Well, at times, I think the dominant culture, the secular culture, does trivialize our beliefs, and at times ridicules them. It's not the same as the kind of persecution that people experience in Cuba or, before the fall of the Iron Curtain. There were many worse forms of persecution. But, I think that there are many forms of persecution, and certainly one of them is to be ridiculed. Q: Given that, as a cardinal you'll have a larger bully pulpit, are there particular issues that you anticipate trying to call attention to, either locally, or nationally, or at the Vatican? A: Well, once again, this is all rather new to me, but I could envision that that could be possible. You mentioned the example of Cardinal (Roger M.) Mahony (of Los Angeles). Certainly the immigration issue is something that goes beyond his diocese, and so he has addressed it in a way that has captured the imagination of the country, and I think that avenue is always open to a cardinal. And there could be issues where that would be appropriate and effective. Q: I gather you don't start out today with a particular agenda of things. A: Not at this point. Q: You arrived in Boston citing St. Francis's injunction to rebuild the church, and making that your goal here. How do you assess how that's going? A: Well, I think that it's not just my rebuilding the church, but the Catholic community coming together, with God's grace, to rebuild the church. I think that there have been many great challenges that we've dealt with as a Catholic community in the last couple of years. Certainly the sex abuse crisis and downsizing our parishes and institutions, the economic crisis that we face, aging clergy. But I think that people have shown a lot of resilience, and in my visits to the parishes for confirmations or parish visits or weekend visits for anniversaries and Sunday Masses, it's always very encouraging to see the vitality of the life in so many of the communities. I'm encouraged by renewed interest in the seminary, and in the last month we've had two retreats there, one for the archdiocese and we had 40 college-aged men. And (from) Springfield (and) New Hampshire (we) had a retreat with 35. The men's conference that was held two weeks ago. Between that and the women's conference, over 8,000 participants, and it was met with great enthusiasm. It was the work of two young professionals who offered to organize this and they did a fantastic job. So we see signs of hope. We've gotten a lot of help in different areas. Working with the finance council, they've done incredible work trying to come up with a fiscal recovery plan. And the schools initiative, I think is another very hopeful sign. The progress we've made with the hospitals, that were in a very shaky situation a few years ago, and now are in positive cash flow, much more, a much stronger position. We're hopeful about what we can do to strengthen Catholic education, and many people have already come forward and pledged their support, monetary support. So I think there are signs of hope. There's no quick fix, and what we've been through as a local church has been very serious, and has very, very deep effects. But as I say, I see many signs of hope, and resilience in the priests. Q: What do you think are the biggest challenges facing the archdiocese, looking ahead? A: Well, certainly passing on the faith is the biggest challenge, and inspiring people to have a sense of personal vocation as individuals. And, at the same time, to feel that they are part of a communal mission that Christ has entrusted to us as his people. For some people, in today's world, religion is kind of reduced to this new age, individual spirituality. But this is not our ecclesiology. This is not our Catholic faith. Our Catholic faith is very much that, although I have a personal vocation, a call to holiness and a call to a way of life, I'm also called to be a disciple with, and to share a mission, with my brothers and sisters in the household of the faith. And so, to communicate that vision in today's world, which is so highly privatized and individualistic, I think that is a great challenge. Q: When you arrived here, obviously the abuse crisis overshadowed everything about this archdiocese. How do you think the archdiocese is doing at moving forward on that front, and particularly, how do you think you're doing dealing first with victims, and then with accused priests? A: Well, it certainly has been the largest issue, I think, in the life of the history of the church in Boston. And certainly, when I arrived, I tried to look for creative ways to come to a settlement with all of the survivors, the victims. And the sale of the bishop's house and his property was the vehicle by which we were able to do that. And the archdiocese is committed to try to do what we can to make our archdiocese as safe as possible. I've committed to continue the annual audits voluntarily, even though it's not being imposed by the bishops' conference, in order to be able to identify areas that we do want to improve in. We're also just finishing a two-year review that our oversight committee has done for us, and they've helped us to identify areas where we need to give attention to. And once again, the help of so many dedicated laypeople who have come to the church in our time of need, and freely given of their talent and their expertise, has been very, very helpful. I dare say that I don't think there's any other institution in the Commonwealth that has done as much to re-guarantee the safety of children as the Catholic Church has done. And we still have a long way to go, but certainly the thousands and thousands of CORI checks and sex abuse training of our volunteers, and the training of the children has been a monumental task, carrying this out at the same time that our resources have been so limited. We are committed to the ongoing psychological counselling and the ongoing training and screening that is essential for the safety of children. Q: And in terms of the relationship with victims and the processing of complaints against priests, how do you assess where you are on those two fronts? A: Well, I think the Office of Outreach is doing a wonderful job. I was meeting with victims again today. That's been ongoing, but their work has been exceptional. And right now we're looking for ways to be able to respond to some of the spiritual and religious needs of the survivors and their families. And we've gotten some help from Boston College, is actually giving us a psychology professor for a year on sabbatical to work with the office and to develop more programs along those lines. And I think that's a very positive development. But I think the ongoing reviews have uncovered a number of areas that we need to work on and that we will address. Certainly, our ability to deal with the accusations in a timely fashion has been very difficult. I think that's improved. We still have a way to go, but a lot of resources, both human and material, have been brought to bear on this whole area, and it certainly has been a priority and will continue to be, because we see the need for healing is going to be around. And so the diocese needs to continue to work in this area. Q: The other issue that's loomed particularly large during your time here has been the closing of parishes. I wonder, in hindsight, if you think the effort was worth all the unhappiness that it generated. A: Well, I don't think we had a lot of choice. If we did not close those parishes right at this point, we would be in very great difficulty to be able to staff all of our parishes, and the economic free-fall that we've been in would be even worse than it is now. And the closing of parishes has allowed us to regroup, to strengthen some of our communities, and it's going to allow us to be able to staff all of our parishes with clergy for a much longer time. It's also allowed us to strengthen our retirement funds that were weak. It certainly has been a very painful process. It was for me, as I know it has been for the parishes. And I think that there have been mistakes of methodology, perhaps. But I think the need to downsize is something that was a crying need, and it was too bad that there hadn't been ongoing pastoral planning to be able to do the reductions over a long period of time. The entire priests' council was in favor of this exercise. Q: How do you expect to handle the final six parishes that are still occupied by protestors? A: Well, we're still in dialogue with them. Each one of those communities is slightly different situations, and I don't know exactly what the outcome will be at this point. We'd like to see it come to a peaceful resolution. We will continue to dialogue with them and to study the situations. Q: Every year it seems a handful of schools close in the archdiocese, and I know you have a committee looking at the overall situation of Catholic education here. What do you see as the future of parochial school education in Boston? A: Well, we're committed to the Catholic schools, and our hope is that the work of the committees that are in place and other committees that we have formed will allow us to strengthen the schools, have them cooperate better with each other. Sometimes our schools are in competition with each other. They tend to be in the more urban areas, where so much of our Catholic population has moved out into the suburbs. So I'd love to see us be able to build more schools out in parishes where Catholic education is not readily accessible. We're committed to the inner-city schools, particularly as a way of serving children from poor families, economically deprived children that, through the Catholic schools, are able to get a good education and get into college, and we have a very good track record of getting kids through school and that they wouldn't drop out. And we need to look at new models of governance, and regionalization of the schools, and to build more of a system. We've been more of a federation of independent schools. So we're hoping out of the study and the strategic plan that we'll be able to address some of these issues. And, as I say, so many people have come forward and expressed an interest in helping us. We'd also like to see if we can do more with the alumni of the Catholic schools. One of the ideas that's being talked about is an alumni association of anybody who went to any Catholic school, whether the school is still here or not. Because a lot of people do have a sense of gratitude and indebtedness to the Catholic education that they received, and we feel as though they would be potential benefactors so that other children can enjoy the same advantages that we have. The college presidents have come forward, too. The Catholic colleges, they're very interested in doing what they can. This year, they put on an ad campaign for the Catholic schools, and are now poised to help the school. And a continuation of that by helping with recruiting efforts for the inner-city schools. And the Catholic colleges have been very, very helpful. I think that synergism is important for the entire Catholic school system. Q: Currently, there's this controversy over the Catholic Charities decision to get out of the adoption business. I wonder, do you personally agree with the Vatican's position that adoption by same sex couples is doing violence to children? A: Well, it's a very tragic moment for us to have to step away from adoptions, since that has been such a characteristic Catholic Charities type of activity, and one that has been in many ways the centerpiece of our Catholic Charities programs throughout the United States. But I understand the Holy See's concern that in our works of mercy, in our social programs, that we must be consistent in teaching the Catholic faith in one voice. And certainly the church's teaching on marriage is very central to our beliefs and how we see that the institution of marriage in today's world is very much threatened on many fronts, and yet it is the very cornerstone of society. And the best way for a child to be raised is to be conceived and nurtured and raised by committed, loving parents in a marriage. And so, for the church, in our social service activities and other works of mercy, we need to be consistent. And it was your newspaper that pointed out the anomaly to us, and we have tried to deal with that. On the other hand, it's always difficult when people look at Catholic teaching on the periphery, and don't see that the core of our teaching is the love of God above all else, and the love of our neighbor as ourselves. And I was very pleased that the Holy Father's first encyclical is 'Deus caritas est,' that God is love. And I know that many people would cast our actions as mean-spirited or to denigrate people. But it is our desire to be faithful to that love that is the very core and reason for our church and our religion, that we must love God, obey his commandments, and try and create a civilization of love. And in our highly secularized, individualistic world, I know that that message doesn't come across too clearly. But we will try to do our best to communicate it in the most clear way that we can. Q: Why not make a kind of prudential judgment that the good done by placing a large number of children with traditional families outweighs the harm done by placing a small number with nontraditional families? A: Well, particularly at a time when the marriage is threatened, it's very important that the church's teaching on the institution of marriage be reflected in our works of mercy and our social services. Q: I'm curious whether, if you did disagree with the Vatican's position on this, is there any way for you to express that, either to Rome or to the public? Or is it simply not possible for a bishop to disagree on matters like this with teachings from Rome? A: Well, I think this is a very clear teaching. And it's not one that would admit of dissent in the church. Q: You alluded earlier to Cardinal Mahony's comments on Ash Wednesday about immigration. He talked about rising anti-immigration sentiment and said he would urge priests to civil disobedience if Congress passed a law asking churches to get documentation from immigrants. What do you make of that, and would you take a similar stance? A: The outrageous legislation that's in the House right now is something that we could never follow. I mean, my hope is that the Senate will be able to... Certainly everybody's concerned about security, and our borders are very porous, but the human problem of 11 million people living in our community, working in our community, is a very real one they can not - that needs to be dealt with. So, besides worrying about security at the borders, which is very important, a guest worker program is in order, but also some sort of a legalization program for the people who are already incorporated in this community and are not going to be deported. We can not deport 11 million people, and it is outrageous to expect that the church or private organizations are going to act as some sort of vigilantes to identify undocumented workers. I mean, it's just not going to happen. Q: When you say it's not going to happen, you mean you will not let it happen here in Boston? A: No. I certainly - I think that would be outrageous. Q: I want to talk for a minute about the administration of the archdiocese. I'm sure you know that some folks wish you had done more to replace administrators who worked for Cardinal Law. What do you say to those folks who would like to see more of a shakeup here at chancery? A: Well, we are in a moment of transition. Obviously, we have a search committee in place for a new chancellor, which is a very important position in the archdiocese, because of the vast responsibilities that the chancellor has. The fiscal recovery committee of the finance council has come up with a lot of recommendations for regionalization and streamlining our central operations, and some of those recommendations certainly will be followed. So I think people are going to see a number of changes in the very near future. We'll be getting new auxiliary bishops and a new chancellor, (and) a new development director. We also have a study going on, on the development efforts of the archdiocese, and how to improve those, and also how the archdiocese can help the parishes in their efforts at fund-raising and development. And that, along with the changes that are coming in the schools. I think there's a lot of changes coming in central administration. And part of the presentation on financial transparency, which will be within the next couple of weeks, will be to begin to share with our people some of the plans to go forward, in the fiscal recovery, and some of the organizational changes that will take place within the archdiocese. Q: I know one concern that's sometimes expressed is that calls and letters, or invitations, don't get responded to. Is that just a reality of the financial situation here, or is there something you can do to make those kinds of operations run more smoothly and be more responsive? A: Well, I don't know whether that is (so). You know as they say, five anecdotes don't make a statistic. I see how carefully they log all of the mail that comes in here. And you would not believe the amount of mail that I get. And some of it is just, 'Archbishop Sean O'Malley, Boston, Massachusetts,' and it gets to me somehow. I'm amazed. If there's letters that aren't getting here, I'm almost tempted to say, Thank God. (laughter). There's certainly a lot that are getting to me. But it's true we've had to downsize, and I don't know whether that has had an effect. Certainly during the period of the last couple of years, there may have been some invitations that were not responded to. But my impression is that that's the exception. (an aide interjects, 'Every effort is made to respond to every piece of correspondence.') And every piece of correspondence is logged when it comes in. Q: Does Cardinal Law advise you on personnel appointments or other administrative matters in the archdiocese? A: Cardinal Law is no longer the archbishop of Boston, just as I am no longer the bishop of Fall River, Palm Beach or the Virgin Islands. When a bishop leaves a diocese, he leaves. I have gone back to have a Mass, something like that, at the invitation of that bishop. But when you leave a diocese, you leave. And Cardinal Law has left Boston. And he has left. And that is the practice of a bishop. Q. Did Cardinal Law ever advise you? A. Never. Q: I understand that as part of the consistory, you'll be expected to exchange a kiss of peace with Cardinal Law. How would you have people understand that moment, given that he remains a fairly controversial figure here in town? A: Well, I'm not that acquainted with the ceremony myself. I don't know whether it's like a Mass where you greet the people that are next to you, or whether every cardinal greets every other cardinal. And certainly I understand that there are people who are angry and upset because of things that transpired in the archdiocese that resulted in Cardinal Law's tendering his resignation. I would hope that people are not focused on that during this ceremony. Cardinal Law is no longer the archbishop of Boston. I am. And at Mass, we give the peace to everybody around us, and at the ceremony we will follow whatever the ritual is, as a sign of peace. Q: This has been such an extraordinary time for the Archdiocese of Boston. I was hoping, would you talk for a bit about how it's affected you personally? How do you feel about being here? A: Well, it's challenging. There's times when it's very exciting, but other times when it's overwhelming. But it's never boring. Q: Are there things that you like about this city, this diocese? A: Oh, Boston is a great place, and I enjoy the people. The priests have been very good. And there's a wonderful, wonderful tradition here. The outreach to the missions and the St. James Society, and all the religious that are here. The deacons. It's a great church in Boston. Every month I meet for prayer and reflection with the younger clergy, those ordained in the last five years, and I see that they have great love for the church and enthusiasm for the ministry at a time when a lot of people would say, 'Are you crazy to be a priest?' And we see these young men coming to the seminary filled with the desire to serve the church and serve God's people. And under these very trying circumstances, I think that's a great sign of hope and the greatness of this church in Boston. Q: Did you have some kind of expectation when you were appointed here about how long you would be here, and has that changed as a result of becoming a cardinal? A: Well, there's a tradition in the church, and this was raised by the head of the Congregation of Bishops a few years ago, that a bishop should be assigned to one diocese and be there his whole life. And that was always my expectation when I went to the islands and yes, now I'm in my fourth (diocese). In fact, the bishop's ring in Spanish is called 'esposo.' It's supposed to be like a wedding ring, that you're married to the diocese. And I never expected to have a harem. (laughter). Every time I go into a diocese I say, 'Well, this is it, I'm going to be here for the rest of my life.' When I was in Fall River, I used to show people the niche where I thought I would be buried underneath the cathedral, next to (Bishop James L.) Connolly and the other bishops. So, it is unusual. So when I came to Boston I said, 'Well, now I'll die in Boston.' But, obviously, it doesn't always work that way. But certainly I think - my attitude has always been, when I go to a diocese, this is where I'm going to be the rest of my life. And I think the tradition and the custom has supported that modus operandi. However, in some extraordinary circumstances it doesn't always play itself out. And in my life, it's been unusual. Q: How do you cope with the controversies and the scrutiny? A: Well, I'm just getting used to it I guess. As I said when I came, eat those powder milk biscuits for shy people. Q: Do you think your physical or mental health has been affected by this job? A: (laughter) Well, I don't think so, but I may not be the best judge of that. Q: I often hear people say they think you've lost a lot of weight or that you seem depressed by the job. Do you see either of those as being the case? A: I don't think so. I think that sometimes the problems weigh heavily upon me, but I don't think I've been depressed. Depression, I think, is when you're depressed and you have nothing to be depressed about. (laughter). When I'm depressed, I have something to be depressed about. If you know what I mean. Q: I'm sure you recall, there was that clause in the letter, I think it was last fall, maybe it was two falls ago, in which you talked about sometimes wanting God to call you home. How should people understand that? A: That reconfiguration was so much fun (laughter) that - I don't think that was a cry of depression. I think it was trying to share with people the pain that I was experiencing in this process. But I think I still have my wits about me. Q: How do you think your leadership style and your personality are suited to or stretched by being archbishop of Boston? A: Well, I'm a good listener, and I think that the priests and the people appreciate that. I believe in delegating. I think in a diocese this big that needs to be done. But this is a very large diocese and I'm still learning. Q: With so much disagreement within the church today, and I suppose within the society at large, what is the proper place, in your view, for disagreement within Catholicism? A: Well, I'm often disappointed by the intensity or the, how shall I say, the rhetoric. I certainly think that there needs to be dialogue and we need to listen to each other. But sometimes people have extremes, as the French say, 'Les extremes se touchent.' They use the same type of Saul Alinksy methodology, which in the church I don't think is appropriate. I think that very often people disagree with the church (and ) they're very quick to misrepresent what the church is doing or saying, and are very quick to impute the very worst motives to people. I certainly wish that there was a little more charity in the discourse of people who disagree. I try not to treat people that way. Q: Is there a place in the church for those who place their faith in Jesus but disagree with teachings about sexuality or even abortion? A: Well, certainly we don't want to drive people out of the church, but we do want to bring people closer to the truth that is proclaimed in the church, particularly around these issues, which are very important. The church can not allow itself to be assimilated into the secular culture around us, and sometimes I think that some of our Catholics have been so influenced by their culture, and then are upset when the church doesn't follow the same path of assimilation, rather than one of giving prophetic witness to a different message, that is the message of the Gospel. I understand the forces that are out there shaping people. And, of course, for the longest time, the church taught from a basis of authority with people, and, with great simplicity and faith, accepted. And in today's world, we need to use more persuasion and apologetics, as we used to call it when I was in seminary, and explanation. But faith can not always be reduced to some syllogism. And we do believe that there are givens, as revelation that has come to us, and that it's our responsibility to embrace that and to teach it. And hopefully to witness to it, and, if we lead good lives, that helps to make our message more cogent, even to those who disagree. Q: I guess this gets to this question that has somewhat surrounded this papacy so far, which is whether the church would be better off as a smaller, purer institution or whether it's some kind of big tent. A: (laughter). Well, there's over a billion of us in the tent. It's pretty big. I used to hear that Pope John Paul (II) was more big tent and Cardinal (Joseph) Ratzinger (now Pope Benedict XVI) was more the faithful remnant, but I don't see that in his writings and the teaching. The church's mission is to try and proclaim the Gospel to the whole world. And certainly there are many who will point to Constantine and say, well, before the church became so official, when they were in the catacombs, then that was the real Christianity. And then they became state religions, official religions, and became very worldly. And there's a certain amount of truth to the danger of the church becoming too involved in worldly things, and losing sight of our basic mission. But I like to think that, if we are faithful to teaching our mission, and try and teach it in a persuasive and a cogent way and challenge people to live a life of holiness, that it will make our message more credible. And one of the greatest tragedies of the sexual abuse crisis is that it undermines our capacity to teach the hard points of the Gospel.
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