RTɒs Morning Ireland Vatican to judge bishops who covered up clerical sex abuse RTÉ’s Morning Ireland Broadcast June 11th, 2015 [Transcribed by BishopAccountability.org on June 13, 2015.] http://www.rte.ie/radio/utils/radioplayer/rteradioweb.html#!rii=9%3A20794933%3A48%3A11%2D06%2D2015%3A Reporter: Pope Francis has approved the creation of a tribunal to hear cases of Bishops accused of covering up child abuse by pedophile priests. The unprecedented move follows a recommendation from the Pope’s newly created panel on clerical sex abuse. The tribunal will have the power to punish Bishops who fail to protect young victims. Survivor’s groups have long called for the Vatican to do more to make Bishops accountable for abuse on their watch. Last year, the United Nations strongly criticized the church for failing to stamp out abuse and for allowing cover ups. A statement from the Vatican said the department would come under the auspices of the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith. The leader of the Catholic Church in Ireland, Archbishop of Armagh, Eamon Martin, has welcomed the move. He was asked if he thought the new office should deal retrospectively with allegations of how bishops handle child sexual abuse cases. Archbishop Martin: I think that uh, justice is indeed retrospective, I mean when it comes to something like child safe guarding, you know, just because something happened a long time ago doesn’t mean that you’re not accountable for it now. So, um, look I really don’t know the absolute detail but I would be very support of any initiatives which will continue to send out the message that the church is not a safe place for people who abuse children. Reporter: Well, Marie Collins, herself a survivor of child sexual abuse by a priest, is a member of the pontifical commission for the protection of minors, which recommended this move. I asked her: had they recommended that the tribunal would investigate retrospective accusations? Marie Collins: We didn’t make a specific recommendation, our recommendation was that basically the bishops have to be held accountable for their handling of child abuse, there has to be accountability, there had to be some way in which they could be held accountable within the church. As Archbishop Martin has said there it doesn’t, take the case of civil law, I mean bishops have to be accountable in the same way as any other citizen for their actions- but this is to make sure that as far as the church laws go a bishop can no longer be, uh, left to just, uh, behave as he wishes If he doesn’t have the right attitude to abuse or if he doesn’t deal with a case properly and if it means that a child is not kept safe, then he will have to answer to his own higher authority as well as to civil authority. Reporter: Is it— Collins: And that’s the important thing for me you know as a survivor because survivors- and others in the church- have been so angry about how this in the past has just not happened despite all the words coming from- from- various leaders saying that this matter was being taken seriously. It didn’t look that way when bishops who hadn’t protected children were left in place and faced no discipline. Reporter: Is it only Bishops or will the heads of religious orders also be amenable and accountable because, as you know, in this country in particular, many, many orders have been criticized, not least the Norbertine order in relation to Brendan Smythe and the various Christian Brother orders as well. Collins: Well, I think any leader-any leader- who doesn’t protect has to be, has to be held accountable. You know, there is no way that only bishops in diocesan areas can be held accountable. But again the nuts and bolts of this whole tribunal, how it will work and the detail, I mean the Holy Father- I’m really happy that he has come back so quickly- In Vatican terms [laughs] he’s come back so quickly- to accept our proposal and at this point now there’s been a lot announced but there’s still a lot I think to be worked out and the nuts and bolts and the details of the whole thing will have to be worked on by those who will actually be on the tribunal and those setting it up, you know. Reporter: And do you know or did you recommend what the sanction should be against any bishop or leader found guilty? Collins: The detail… I can’t go into a lot of detail, you know, because it is the work of the commission and as a member of the commission, although I, as a survivor obviously have a lot invested in this whole issue, I’m still a member of the commission, so I can’t really go in to too much detail as to what the commission recommended or didn’t recommend. You know, the basic thing that we recommended was there should be accountability. And what’s important to me is- , when I was joining the commission the first question I was asked by people was: What’s your priority? And I said accountability. And I think there was lot of skepticism about this commission, people thinking that it was only window dressing; that it was only there for PR purpose. I hope this shows that we really are serious about the work we are doing. And this is the only beginning, there’s a lot more work for the commission to do and hopefully it is going to change the way the church deals with this whole issue. Reporter: but many- many- will argue… [talking at same time as Marie] Marie: [talking at same time as reporter, can’t hear beginning of this] ….safer in the future, you know. Reporter: And many will argue that it may only achieve that end if it is retrospective because of the- the- hundreds of thousands, millions of course, around the world affected by abuse within the church, not least yourself, of course too, Marie, and as you say- yeah-. Marie: Absolutely. Reporter: But you in the past have accused Desmond Connell, Cardinal Connell, of not treating your allegations seriously when you brought them to him. Marie: Absolutely. Reporter: Is he someone is he someone you would like to see before this tribunal? Marie: There are many, many [laughs] not just- just in my own case and not just in Ireland; we know that this has happened worldwide with so many that have been in leadership and have not protected children, have not handled cases properly, have left children in danger and nothing has been done about it. And for me anyway that has got to change and I hope it will change. All I’m saying is, I don’t know the nuts and bolts, but it would seem to me that it has to be retrospective but I can’t speak on the absolute detail that’s in place, but I can understand that everyone is looking at it from that point of view. [talking over one another, can’t quite catch it] Reporter: [talking over on another, inaudible] But from your personal point of view- Marie: I look at it from the same way everyone else does. Reporter: So should Desmond Connell be held accountable? Marie: [long pause] I ca--- I won’t go into who should and who shouldn’t because when you mention one, there are other survivors who feel that same way about their bishop or archbishop exactly the same way as I would have felt about Cardinal Connell. So I don’t want to specify one particular individual, there are dozens around the world who have mishandled cases and all have got to be accountable. Now when it will happen, how it will happen; I can’t answer the question, you know I could – I could- sort of just answer the question here and bluff my way around it, but I can’t do that because I don’t know the nuts and bolts. I will be asking questions myself now that it has been set up as to exactly how it’s going to work and what’s going to be covered by us and not. But the principle is that accountability is now part of church law, where it wasn’t before. And I understand that everyone wants to know the absolute details but as with everything else when you are setting something up new, there’s a huge amount still to be worked out and still decided. But, I would certainly feel like everybody else does. Retrospective is important. There are so many out there that have not handled this situation correctly. Reporter: Marie Collins talking to us from Rome a little bit earlier this morning. [End audio]

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