Vor Debate: Can the Vatican Deal Credibly with Child Abuse Scandal?
Voice of Russia
[with audio] The United Nations has criticised the Vatican for failing to protect children from paedophile priests as investigators in Geneva probe the global scandal that rocked the Catholic Church to its foundations. The hearing in Geneva was the first time that the Vatican has been confronted publicly over the sexual abuse of children by clergy. VoR's Brendan Cole hosts a discussion on the subject. Pope Francis has set up a Vatican committee to fight sexual abuse of children in the Catholic Church and offer help to victims. Campaigners say the inquiry investigating institutional child abuse by members of the clergy in Northern Ireland needs to be extended to England and Wales. Stop Church Child Abuse welcomed the opening of the investigation into 13 orphanages and children's homes but said it was now time for the government to roll the inquiry out across Britain. Pope Francis has said dealing with sex abuse is vital for the Church's credibility but how effectively is he and the church dealing with it? To discuss this VoR’s Brendan Cole was joined by: Peter D Williams from the group Catholic Voices Fr Paul Keane Peter Saunders (on the line) from the group National Association for People Abused in Childhood or NAPAC David Greenwood from the Stop Church Child Abuse campaign Soundbites: PS: “What I’ve read so far, would seem to be encouraging, that the statement made before the convention was exactly what I would have expected to hear, and as we often say - ‘actions speak louder than words’. The Catholic Church, in common with many-many other institutions, does have problems in certain areas and the one that we’re concerned with at NAPAC are adult survivors of childhood abuse. I speak as a person who was also assaulted by Catholic priests as a child, and know many other people who suffered likewise”. “Whether it be the Vatican or any other organisation, we [NAPAC] are always interested in moving forward and protecting children. The Vatican’s desire to support and help victims, I think, is absolutely crucial. I think we’ve moved on somewhat, in recent years, from a culture of denial and silence, but I hope that we’re here to move on, and to ensure that what happened to me, and many others, doesn’t occur in the future.” “The history of the Church and many other institutions, as I have said, is the reluctance to address these issues.” “The institutions have often been dragged into the equation, and haven’t necessarily come willingly, but have been forced there, often, by actions of survivors or victims, if you want to call them that. I may be a lone voice amongst lots of survivor organisations, in saying that I have some expectation and hope for the new Pope. He has astounded me so far with some of the things that he has said – I mean astounded me in a very positive way.” DG: “I’m afraid I see it all as window dressing. Until actions do speak louder than words, I won’t believe it. I’ve heard it from successive leaders of the Catholic Church and other churches that they’re willing to move their position, but nothing’s happened.” “I witnessed the Committee confirm that they have accepted that the Church violated the Convention on the Rights of the Child, and let’s not forget that there has been a series of cover-ups and sexual abuse scandals since...” “The Committee urged the Holy See to amend its’ canon law to ensure that it complies with the Convention, which it signed in 1990; it’s urged them to make sure that there are no more secret Catholic courts; it urged the Holy See to ensure that all reports of suspected abuse are turned over to the police automatically; it urged them to uncover and publish their secret archives, investigations and punishments of offenders; it urged them to stop moving priests between countries to avoid justice, and to improve the compensation for survivors of abuse. I was astounded also by the arrogance of the representatives of the Holy See, who came along and lied to the Committee about their corporation with civil authorities in full – they were corrected in that, as there’s currently a Polish Papal Nuncio accused of child abuse in the Dominican Republic, who is being sheltered by the Vatican, who refuse to allow him to be extradited.” “They all said that the Holy See was not responsible for the Magdalene laundries in Ireland. Yet, they were staffed and run by nuns connected with the Vatican.” “They came along with a superior attitude, they had no concrete pledges; they were evasive and gave non-specific answers to questions.” “I’m afraid this is a really excellent opportunity for the Church to try to put itself forward as a hero. It would be so easy for the Church to comply with the UN Convention. They would be able to retrieve their reputation which has hit rock bottom for a number of years now, but I’m afraid, because the representatives who came along and were incredibly evasive, I don’t see much hope there…” PW: “Let’s have a reality check here. The most important thing in this whole issue is the welfare of the victims and the safeguarding policies that the Church puts into place. Actually, for ten years now, it’s done a very good job in doing that since 2001, when we had Sacramentorum Sactitatis Tutela, which was a motu proprio, given by Pope John Paul II and implemented by Cardinal Ratzinger. We saw the extension, for example, of the statute of limitations ten years after the 18th birthday of a victim, where before it was five years after the crime, that was then extended ten years later under Pope Benedict XVI to twenty years, and indeed bishops now have the authority to wave that in all cases. We’ve seen cases where we’ve been able to speed up the cessation procedures; they’ve encouraged bishops to report crimes to civil authorities, and there are so many things the Church has done. Indeed, in this country the Church has a done a lot to make sure its’ safeguarding policies are actually one of the best in the whole world. So, it’s important to have a balanced view on this – the Church does care...” “In fact, when we talk about the UN here, the Holy See is a signatory to the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child. So, every five years, like every other country who is a signatory, it comes to report on how it’s getting on in terms on its’ progress, in terms of implementing those rights. What happened here with the United Nations Committee, and this is a Committee by the way, it’s not a judicial body, not a legislative body - they weren’t interrogating them, they weren’t subjecting them to some kind of investigation. This is simply the Holy See coming along and saying - ‘right, okay, this is what we’ve done, this is what we are doing, and we welcome anyone to tell us this is how you could do it better’. That is exactly why Pope Francis set up his Commission to advise him on safeguarding procedures, to make sure, again, that the Church is the best it can possibly be...” “The Church is not a top-down Stalinist organisation, where everything is controlled by the Vatican. It’s actually a hugely decentralised organisation and the responsibility for the everyday matters, are really down to dioceses. Dioceses are in individual countries, so it’s not the Vatican’s responsibility to tell every single diocese ‘you must do this’, and all of the abuse that we have seen happen, all the cover ups, have been on a diocesan level. So, when we talk about the Church, we often have to make the distinction between the Vatican – the Holy See, which is the Pope; and all the major matters within the ordinary dioceses, where actually safeguarding is a practical reality.” PK: “There are priests in jail, who have been found guilty of abusing children. Unfortunately, the Church has been all too similar to other institutions, going back into the fifties, where there was a society when people couldn’t feel they could come forward; where the local Church, at times, wanted to protect its’ reputation, so it preferred to move people on or not talk about things, and of course, so many institutions suffered from this in the sixties, seventies and eighties, where they thought therapy was the way – ‘we’ll just simply make the priest better’ rather than recognising the awful affliction that has been given to the person that has been abused.” “The Church since 2001 has really stepped up its’ game, and I would say, the Catholic Church leads the way compared to most institutions…” “I think the characterisation we’ve heard of what went on in Geneva, is most unfair. I know Bishop Scicluna, who is one of the representatives [the Vatican's former sex crimes prosecutor], very well from when I was a student in Rome. When he began to deal with the cases of abuse, not whether those priests should be reported to the authorities – that was just presumed, but when the cases were sent to Rome to decide whether they should be stripped of their priesthood, if it was proven by the authorities that they were guilty of a crime.” “When you look at the number of cases, they’re preponderantly in the seventies and eighties.” “Church law – canon law, says this person [pedophile] should be dealt with as a criminal offender.” DG: “Canon law doesn’t require cases to be dealt with as criminal offences. The canon law was promulgated back in 1962 and it’s still in force, and requires all these allegations to be kept entirely secret – by the priest, by the person who is making the complaint.” PW: “The laws [canon law] go back to 1922. They were re-established in 1962 and then replaced entirely in 2001. And in no way do they suggest that you should have some kind of court that makes sure that people have to be secretive.” “The victim has no requirement of secrecy. In terms of going to the police, going to civil authorities, getting help from anyone. There is absolutely no requirement of that at all and never has been. Whenever we talk about this “pontifical secrecy” that keeps coming up, it always means confidentiality on the Church level for the tribunal, the procedure that’s dealing with these kinds of cases.” PS: “My understanding of Christ and the Bible was that the two things Jesus said more than anything else, was to love one another and to not have fear. The only people that Jesus condemned were those who hurt or destroyed the innocence of children. I think that’s the message that we need to bear in mind as Christians, and that is the message the Church officials need to remember.” PS: “I would challenge the notion that the Pope is not an absolute ruler, who can make things happen if he so wishes. I was brought up as a Catholic, I was at mass not very long ago – the Holy Father is still prayed for, the Holy Father is to be obeyed. If Francis was to turn around and to say to those dioceses around the world, who have this information, allegedly, and I don’t doubt it, pertaining to priests who are still at large, should we say, and therefore, a danger to children, I can’t see why the Pope does not instruct the dioceses to hand that information over to the authorities…” PS: “The priest in the Roman Catholic community is seen as the conduit to God, and that is where there is this additional level of, I would call it, evil, when abuse has been perpetrated by a person pertaining to be of God.” PK: “For example in western Europe, certainly priests have been held in high regard, traditionally in society, and the example of the awful case of abuse of deaf children, which happened in the sixties, where the police refused to act, because the police wouldn’t believe it, even though the case was reported to the police by Church authorities.” “Now we’ve discovered various cases of celebrities in the United Kingdom being on trial. Why did those who were abused not step forward sooner? Because they said ‘I didn’t think anyone would believe me’…” “I’ve been a priest for ten years. I’ve never been on my own in an enclosed space with anyone under eighteen in those ten years. Anyone working with young people or vulnerable people, so therefore, including people with disabilities or those who are frail because of old age, all of those, who work in our churches in England and Wales, are checked to make sure they don’t have a record with the police. That will become more and more common throughout the world.” DG: “The UN Committee that I’ve just been sitting in, the Convention, is designed to be a minimum standard for the protection of rights of the child. 120 countries have signed up to it and the research has been done by these academics and experts in child safeguarding, who are on the Committee worldwide. If they’re asking these questions and the Holy See representatives are refusing or obfuscating in responding to them, I fail to see how it can be said that the Holy See, or the Vatican, or the Pope are acting responsibly.” “I hope when Pope Francis actually digests all of this, he will raise his pen and do something about it. But, I’m afraid on past experience, when I’ve been in contact with bishops, etc. through legal cases, I’ve seen none of the willingness to actually put these things into practice.” PS: “When people are abused in childhood, there is always hope, there is always healing.” “Closure is not a word that I use very often, because I don’t think that any of us who were abused, will ever, perhaps, get our head around why it happened, and really understand what caused it...” “I think the worst consequence, when a child is abused by someone purporting to be of Christ, is to separate [them] from God.”
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