“it’s about Justice for the Victims”
Dubbo Photo News
Troy Grant – former police officer and now Member for Dubbo – has long campaigned for justice for the victims of sexual abuse at the hands of the Catholic clergy. As a young rookie detective when he spearheaded an investigation into allegations of sexual abuse of children by Catholic priests in the Hunter region of NSW. This week, Troy Grant gave evidence at the Special Commission of Inquiry, established by the NSW State Government to investigate allegations of police and clerical interference into the investigation of child sex abuse in the Catholic Church. He spoke with JEN COWLEY following his appearance before the enquiry. The Commission of Inquiry before which you appeared this week is different from the Royal Commission set down to open later in the year, isn’t it? Yes. This is the Special Commission of Inquiry established by Premier O’Farrell after Detective Chief Inspector (Peter) Fox made specific and serious allegations about potential (police) interference in investigations he was undertaking in the Hunter region involving two Catholic priests accused of being paedophiles. Those investigations related to Father Denis McAlinden and Father James Fletcher. The inquiry is under the auspices of Commissioner Margaret Cunneen who is charged with taking evidence in regard to those serious allegations, and in turn making a determination. It’s different to the Royal Commission, but evidence given or utilised in this hearing can also be used in that broader national commission. Will you be giving evidence at the Royal Commission? I’ll be making myself available. Ultimately it’s a question for the commissioners as to who they call, but I’ll certainly be making available all the material I have, and myself. If I can assist in any way, I will. What was the nature of your evidence before the Special Commission of Inquiry this week? My involvement has come about because Peter Fox has alleged that I made comments to him in 2003 saying I’d experienced similar interference from NSW Police during my investigations and that I had referred to and warned him about a “Catholic mafia” that existed in the NSW Police force. (** Ed’s note: Peter Fox later clarified to the inquiry that the phrase “may have been used in relation to the clergy” not to police. Troy Grant told the inquiry of extensive interference by the Catholic Church in his investigations.) And you have disputed that? Absolutely. My evidence has been consistent over 17 years – and that is that I received nothing but the strongest support from my commanders, the crime squad and the force as a whole. I did not make those comments to Detective Fox and I can’t explain why he has mistakenly attributed them to me. I had a very successful investigation which resulted in successful civil and criminal outcome. It makes no sense. There have been allegations that you’re bowing to pressure to deny those comments Peter Fox attributes to you. What’s your reaction? It’s been put to me that I’m not owning up to the comments because they would be politically detrimental to me – but quite the opposite is true. “Catholic mafia” is quite a headline-grabbing, sensationalist phrase that could only give me political mileage had I said it and subsequently used it in comments I’ve made publicly, for instance to Cardinal George Pell and the need to establish a Royal Commission. If I had made that comment and that statement, I could now freely use it with the privilege of Parliament. But I didn’t say it. And there’s no truth to the comments being made about interference in my investigation. Have you spoken to Detective Fox about his attributing these statements to you? No. I haven’t spoken to him since 2007. The last time I spoke with him was in relation to another matter entirely. He says the conversation he had with me (from which these alleged statements came) happened around 2003 – which, again, didn’t happen. It just doesn’t make any sense – because if I was indeed warning him of, in his words, this “Catholic mafia”, all the police who were in command positions during my investigation weren’t around and didn’t have any links with his investigation. They’d all moved on. It’s nonsensical. So I was really surprised when I heard those allegations late Monday night – I’d never even heard the term “Catholic mafia” before his evidence. Why do you think there has been such a focus on this phrase “Catholic mafia”? Because it’s such a headline grabber – the notion that a Member of the NSW Parliament had concerns about an organised “Catholic mafia” within the NSW Police Force that was trying to hinder an investigation I was undertaking into sexual assault in the church. It’s pretty sensational. But it’s not true. I’ve written for you in this publication, the Weekender (Unholy cross to bear – 11.08.2012, pictured) about my experience with that investigation. In that I recognised the efforts of those officers who were involved. It was only my own ability that I questioned – my experience in handling this type of matter. But they supported me and asked me to continue. Again, I’m on the record consistently for 17 years as praising the police for their support and the successful outcome of the investigation. At the same time, I’ve been asking for 17 years for those who tried to cover (the abuse) up – the unfinished aspect of my investigation – to be brought to justice. This is all an unfortunate and unwelcome distraction from what is a very serious and tragic issue, isn’t it? You’re 110 per cent correct there. Look, I’m not critical of Detective Fox and there’s no animosity between us – he’s mistakenly attributed these statements to me. But I sincerely hope that this non-issue doesn’t draw away from what are very serious allegations, and doesn’t distract from the issue at hand, which is to make sure the perpetrators of sexual abuse within the Catholic Church or any other institution are held to account and that anyone who disrupts that process or plays a part in justice being denied the victims should also be held to account. Are you annoyed by this diversion from the focus of the issue? It’s never pleasant to be dragged into a side-show. Particularly given I simply didn’t make the statements. I’ve never wavered – and still don’t – from my position of calling on people to be accountable. I asked Cardinal Pell on national television to fall on his sword if he wasn’t going to step up and properly lead the Catholic Church in response to child sexual abuse allegations. You mention George Pell. Have you been disappointed by the response of the upper echelons of the church to the allegations of abuse? I haven’t really formed an opinion yet. I guess D-Day will be when they front the Royal Commission when they delve into the institutionalised response, which is when the full extent of the evidence I have will come to light. What are your hopes for the Royal Commission? That the institutions that will be named for hindering, inappropriately dealing with, covering up – whatever the role may have been – in child sexual abuse, and the individuals involved will be called to account. The main perpetrator from my investigation is now deceased, but there’s a nun who’s still alive who needs to be called to account. I intend to name her in the Royal Commission if given the opportunity. Ultimately, I just want justice for the victims. I want everyone to remember that this isn’t about Peter Fox. It’s not about Troy Grant. It’s not about any advocacy group. It’s about victims getting the judgement and the opportunity for the justice they’ve been denied too long. I want to see institutions no longer allowed to determine for themselves whether their response to this issue is appropriate. I think all of them have lost that right. The Catholic nun you allege was complicit in the abuse by warning the priest of the impending action – what would you say to her if you had the opportunity? When she’s called to appear at the Royal Commission after I’ve named her that she answers honestly. And that she takes responsibility for what she did. She was involved in the early 70s. She was a key part. She wasn’t the ‘ringleader’ – that guy is dead and was never held to proper account – but she played an active and continual role over 20 years. Her culpability is that she was complicit in many of the victims of the investigation I conducted becoming victims when they didn’t have to. She needs to be held to account for her role in that. She can’t flick pass responsibility to others for this – she owns that responsibility. She actively took part in alerting the priest I was investigating – she tipped him off before he was arrested. Her actions were always in the interests of the Church, not of the victims. Are you still in touch with the victims from your investigation and how are they doing? Just a couple. I deliberately over the years have tried to minimise that relationship and distance myself, simply because continued and close contact with them would only be a reminder of why that relationship exists. I’ve tried to let them get on with their lives, but I hope they know I’m always there for them if they need me. How are you doing with it all being dragged up again? How you deal with and reconcile the emotional turmoil you underwent as part of this investigation? As I wrote in the Weekender last year, my best friend was at the bottom of a scotch bottle for a while there. I’m a bit more mature now than I was then. I rely primarily on my wife and family and friends who have been terrific through this whole process. Revisiting the brief of evidence to prepare my statement for not only this inquiry but also the Royal Commission has made me realise that I hadn’t really acknowledged until the past couple of days that it has been emotional – to revisit all that, to re-read the victims’ stories that I recorded all those years ago. There was such an horrific impact on so many people’s lives. How futile it all was. To go back and re-read the record of interview I had with Monsignor Paddy Cotter just brought back so many memories of how despicable that man was. When people get the chance to read his record of interview, the whole world will see clearly the extent of that man’s culpability. It’s been more draining emotionally on me than I’ve cared to admit – until the past couple of days. But at the end of the day, the emotional impact on me dwarfs in comparison to the heart-ache any victim of sexual abuse has to go through. I have little to complain about.
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