Catholic Church Appoints Judge to Lead Abuse Inquiry

ABC - 7.30
July 17, 2012

http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2012/s3547935.htm

[with video]

An independent inquiry in to sex abuse in two New South Wales dioceses was announced by the Catholic Church today, and Father Frank Brennan joins us to discuss how the Church handles these processes.

Transcript

LEIGH SALES, PRESENTER: The Catholic Church has announced that the former Federal Court judge Anthony Whitlam QC will head an independent inquiry into the case of the defrocked priest known as Father F. As you may recall from stories on this program, Father F is accuse of abusing altar boys in the 1980s, some of whom later committed suicide. The Church has given conflicting accounts of what he later admitted to the Catholic hierarchy and why none of them went to the police.

In a moment we'll hear from the man Paul Keating once labelled "the meddling priest", Jesuit and human rights lawyer Father Frank Brennan for his views on how the case has been handled so far. But first, here's a reminder of some of the victims' stories.

VICTIM'S RELATIVE: I mean, when Damian admitted to a psychiatrist that he'd been sexually abused by a priest, it was their obligation to go to the police.

VICTIM'S RELATIVE II: I think it's quite disgusting how they close it all - yeah, they hide it! You know, they close ranks, they pass the buck, most definitely. You know, if one can't help the victim it's palmed off to someone else. - never to the police though. The police never seem to be the ones that get told.

LEIGH SALES: Father, thank you very much for coming in.

FRANK BRENNAN, HUMAN RIGHTS LAWYER: Pleasure.

LEIGH SALES: You know, you are the first prominent Catholic priest that we've been able to get to actually come in and address these issues. Is it the case, as we heard one of those victims' relatives say, that Catholic leaders want to hide this issue?

FRANK BRENNAN: I would hope not and I think the fact that today an appointment has been announced of Tony Whitlam QC by the Church shows that we're not in the business of hiding things.

LEIGH SALES: Do Catholic lay people notice that senior leaders aren't out and about a lot on these issues?

FRANK BRENNAN: I think so and so do the clergy and I think it's a very welcome thing that we can try and improve on our approach to these matters.

LEIGH SALES: Where do you think is the room for improvement?

FRANK BRENNAN: Well presumably Tony Whitlam will show up where there's room in terms of discovering the facts of what's gone on with these unfortunate cases. I think one of the uncertain areas is particularly the area of: when do you report things to police? I'd have to say as a priest if I was told something strictly under the seal of the confessional, I would not reveal it, but I would readily concede if it were not under the strict seal of the confessional, then the same rule should apply to me as to any other citizen.

LEIGH SALES: So does that mean then that you don't accept the argument that was made by one of the priests in that meeting in 1992 with Father F that they couldn't go to the police because there were no victims' names so it was pointless to go to police?

FRANK BRENNAN: Well the fact there were no victims' names would not of itself be determinative and I can only presume that Tony Whitlam now will be able to investigate fully into those matters. I note there's been a variety of viewpoints expressed by the three priests, but also and what's of relevance is that there was a variety of written responses at the time. So, if there was the stuff of cover up, you would expect unanimity, but given that there's been a variety of views expressed, I would hope that we're in a position to now make full disclosure.

LEIGH SALES: Is - and should that full disclosure come before that inquiry completes its findings, should that full disclosure come now from Archbishop Pell?

FRANK BRENNAN: No, I think the disclosure comes best from Tony Whitlam being able to interview all the key persons. I think trial by media on this sort of thing is not altogether helpful and of course Cardinal Pell in this instance didn't have a formal role to play. He was not the Bishop of Armidale, he was not the Bishop of Parramatta and he was not the bishop of any of those three priests at the time that they conducted the inquiries.

LEIGH SALES: Is it enough for the Church to encourage victims to go to the police or do you think the Church has a broader responsibility than that?

FRANK BRENNAN: I think this is a very vexed area, particularly when the victims are children. It is of course absurd to suggest that it's up to a 10-year-old child to go to the police. That is a matter of acute psychological and pastoral care and concern which presumably would have to be worked out with the parents of a child and also the authorities of those who are dealing with the matter. Let's not forget what we're dealing with is criminal activity by a person, in this case a priest who's acting outside of the scope of his employment or responsibilities. So it's a matter of those who have had that person and given him trust being able to work with the parents and others responsible for that child to work out what's the best way forward.

LEIGH SALES: You said that if somebody came to you in confession and revealed that they'd engaged in this sort of behaviour, that you wouldn't divulge it. What was the thought process that lead you to conclude that is the way that you would act?

FRANK BRENNAN: In confession I think that's quite a simple case. No matter what was confessed to me in confession I am not at liberty to disclose that to anybody. And yes, as a priest, I would agree to going to jail rather than to disclose what was revealed to me in confession. But outside the formal sacrament of confession, if there be a process where material is disclosed to me as a priest, I'm saying that exactly the same legal obligation should apply to me as to you.

LEIGH SALES: But what would you do if someone came to you in confession and said that they had been abusing children. You wouldn't divulge it, but would there be anything that you could do. 'Cause that would weigh pretty heavily on you, I would imagine?

FRANK BRENNAN: It would weigh very heavily and that's why I'm grateful in the Church now we have the Towards Healing protocols, and so if that was reported to me that someone within the Church had engaged in such behaviour then I could report that to authorities within the Church through the Towards Healing protocol and then they then have means of dealing with protocols with the police. If it was reported to me that there was abuse of a child by someone not connected with the Church then I have to say I'm one of those Australian citizens, though I'm a lawyer, who's only learnt recently that in NSW there is a general legal provision that says, "Thou shall report these things to the police." I've never done that, but I've never been in a position where such information's been disclosed to me, but I wonder what would happen if I'd walk into a police station and say that I have information, though not very material information, about particular identification.

LEIGH SALES: I wanted to ask you about one other matter because you're very well known for your human rights advocacy. It's about a remark that Tony Abbott made recently regarding asylum seekers who come to Australia by boat, and Mr Abbott said, "I don't think it's a very Christian thing to come in by the back door rather than the front door. I think the people we accept should be coming the right way and not the wrong way." What do you make of the argument that it's not a very Christian thing to come by boat?

FRANK BRENNAN: Well the glib point is most of them who are coming are Muslim, of course, so I think applying Christian morality as such is not the issue. But going to the more substantive point: when you're asking what is Christian, if people are truly desperate and fleeing for their lives, notions about front doors and back doors don't make much sense, particularly if there is no front door. Take the simple case of an Hazara who has fled from Afghanistan, wherein the past they would find some sort of refuge in a place like Quetta in Pakistan and they now can't and they end up in this part of the world. There is no front door. So, distinguishing between front and back doors is not the answer and so it doesn't get you very far to label them Christian or un-Christian.

LEIGH SALES: Father Frank Brennan, thank you very much for coming in.

FRANK BRENNAN: Thank you. Good to be with you.